High School of the Dead / Gakuen Mokushiroku

AN Shows
489

[quote=Newshawk]

[quote=dragonrider_cody]

[quote=Newshawk]

[quote=slickwolfie]

[quote=Newshawk]
Perhaps I was a bit over the top with that comment (preferring the sub to the dub) but I will not give up on the iconic nature of the “double tap, baby” comment. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this, Cody. I’m still going to watch the series on VOD-in fact, I am really looking forward to next week’s episode in the apartment…[/quote]
The phrase “Double Tap” has been around for a long time. I didn’t see it as “iconic”, but that’s just me. I also didn’t see the dub yet, so I really can’t comment on which version is better.
Slick[/quote]
You are correct that the term “double tap” has been around for a while. It was even used incorrectly in H.O.T.D. as the term refers to firing two rounds at the same target in an extremely short period of time (see Wikipedia: Double tap). However, as Hirano had an incomplete knowledge of firearms (even with his summer training at a shooting facility in the US) he would not have known that.

I consider it iconic of Hirano as it is the first time he fires a real firearm at a human… well, a former human… and it solidifies his excitement and pride in his “achievement”. It was his “coming out” statement, if you will. Considering Hirano’s character up until this point, where would his motivation be for dropping a “f-bomb” at that moment. This has been my contention all along-the the line is out of character with Hirano’s personality and was thrown in merely for shock value. I don’t know about you, but using profanity merely for shock value shows a lack of understanding of the character.[/quote]
You have no way of knowing why it was used in this instance. Dubbing is a lot more than just saying an exact translation of the Japanese. Things like timing and lip flaps also come into play. Also the person that is finally cast as a character can also affect how certain phrases come across and this has to be taken into account too.

Plus, we are only 5 episodes into the series. You have no understanding of Hirano prior to the events of the first day. You act as though you have some deep understanding of him based on many episodes of his character leading up to a zombie apocalypse. You just don’t have that. In fact, we only have a few moments of his character before s**t hits the fan. What his character was before is basically irrelevant. What happened that day changed everyone. Even in the manga, we have little understanding of the characters before hand, except for the two leads (which is mostly accomplished through flashbacks.)[/quote]

So you’re saying Foster was forced by timing, lip flaps and choice of VA into a situation where he had to have Hirano use profanity? That appears to me to be a greater stretch than what I’m saying.

Cody, let’s just settle on this. You approve of the line and I don’t. End of story. I really don’t want to argue about it any more-we’re straining at gnats.[/quote]

I didn’t say that at all. My point was that you were making extremely broad assumptions with nothing to back them up. You weren’t in Houston or Japan when the translation and scripts were finalized. You have no way of knowing why the writers picked that line, or why the Japanese approved it. To automatically make the assumption that it was done merely for “shock value” shows not only a complete lack of understanding of the dubbing process but a complete lack of respect for those involved in the process.

Regardless, I myself prefer the original line. However, changing one line does not in anyway affect the outcome of the show or the characters. I’ve just learned not to get upset by relatively minor changes without knowing the reason behind them. Often, some controversial changes were actually enforced on the R1 distributor by the Japanese to “broaden the appeal” of a title. Now I’m not saying that was the case here, but some of the instances I know keep me from jumping to conclusions in cases like this.

The funny thing is that Sentai had been getting some flack from certain corners for keeping their translations and dialogue too close to the original Japanese leading up to this release. I guess it just shows you can’t please everyone.

490

http://www.almadrava.net/damnans/TomDuncan/WHYCANT.jpg

491

Episode 6… [details=spoiler] “What is she, Sarah censored Palin?!” I’m sure the purists will be complaining about that one too, but it made me laugh pretty hard, I wasn’t expecting that at all. Same with the NRA reference. I’ll grant that they don’t make as much sense accepting the show’s set in Japan, but still they were funny lines. And the scene in the kitchen was amusing, ti… err, too.[/details]

Honestly given the violence, gore, shooting, and the bath scene in this episode it seems a little silly to complain about some cuss words in the dub. You could watch it on mute and there should be no doubt this is a series for mature adults, not children and sissies.

492

[quote=rebecca12]
Episode 6… [details=spoiler] “What is she, Sarah censored Palin?!” I’m sure the purists will be complaining about that one too, but it made me laugh pretty hard, I wasn’t expecting that at all. Same with the NRA reference. I’ll grant that they don’t make as much sense accepting the show’s set in Japan, but still they were funny lines. And the scene in the kitchen was amusing, ti… err, too. [/details][/quote]

How will that line play in 5-10 years? [details=spoiler]Unless Palin gets very lucky. by then she will be a trivia item on quiz shows and this episode will seem soooo dated. Even you noted the lines made no sense.[/details]

[quote=rebecca12]
Honestly given the violence, gore, shooting, and the bath scene in this episode it seems a little silly to complain about some cuss words in the dub. You could watch it on mute and there should be no doubt this is a series for mature adults, not children and sissies.[/quote]

Once again, you’re oversimplifying the issue I have with episode 5. It’s not the use of the “f” word I object to- I thought my reply to your last post would have illustrated that- it’s what I consider a poor judgment call to ignore an iconic line in favor of cheap shock schlock. I did an A/B comparison the scene in the dub and sub and guess what, folks? [details=spoiler]Hirano says “Double tap” in English (albeit with an odd Japanese pronunciation of “double”), so it should have been very easy to match the lip flaps in the dub. I have to believe that this reinforces my assertion that it was a conscious choice to go for shock over building Hirano’s character. [/details]

Oh, and if seeking to maintain the original traits of a major character is “sissy” then I’m guilty as charged. I still think it’s more juvenile to take the sophomoric shock route than to maintain a more faithful portrayal of a character.

493

Ep. 6

Yoda: Fan service is strong in this one, could shower we need. :silly:

494

So did ineone like the High scool of the dead I was wowd by the speed of story progres on the 1st ep

495

Yes it was awesome but please discuss this in ‘Anime Network Shows’ forum.

496

Indeed, there’s already a thread for it here:

http://www.theanimenetwork.com/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,65/catid,4/func,view/id,76847/

You probably won’t get many responses from others by starting a new thread in the spam forum, so you are welcome to add to the discussion there.

497

I still think Steven Foster ruined the HOTD dub. I still hate it. I really do. All these BS jokes that aren’t funny, all the extra swearing, this is not funny. The casting was good but the writing is terrible.

When he does a serious show like Xam’d it turns out fine, but when he tries to make things funny or edgy it just does not work at all.

UGH.

498

The writing may not be the best, but at least the casting and performances were good. That.s more than you will get out of Funimation and Bang Zoom these days. At least this dub isn’t so terrible that it makes me wish I could switch languages, like Black Butler, FMA Brotherhood, or K-On!.

I can deal with the jokes, which some I actually find funny, and the extra swearing (which doesn’t seem out of place to me) but when you screw up the casting to the point that its distracting, I just can’t deal with that. I just try to keep reminding myself that everyone has different tastes.

499

Cody, you’re right. I guess the reason those of us who have objections have them is because the normally high Sentai quality level was cheapened a bit by the overly edgy script. That being said, I had no problems with the dub of episode 7. While it wasn’t completely matching the Japanese, it sounded good. You may be surprised about that, but if you remember it wasn’t the profanity I objected to but the dropping of the “Double Tap, baby” line then my opinion of episode 7 makes sense. In fact, I have only one objection/question, and it’s with the action on the screen in the beginning of the episode. If the zombies can’t see and the kids aren’t making too much noise, why are the zombies “looking” up at the apartment? :blink:

500

What I wonder is what people’s opinions would be if they had never watched the Japanese version. I know my enjoyment of dubs has been dampened somewhat as I’ve watched more and more series subtitled. Sometimes it’s even odd to hear English coming out of the characters on some series, and I’ve noticed things like lip flaps and voices sounding too old more than I have in the past.

So far all the complaints on HOTD have centered on how far it strays from the Japanese. Most people have been quite pleased, even surprised the by the quality of the casting and performances. I wonder if that would still be the case if less of those people had watched the entirety of it subbed prior. I know that’s the primary reason I just can’t stomach horrendous dubs of Ouran and FMA: Brotherhood. If I hadn’t watched some episodes subbed, I may have been able to enjoy them more.

What’s funny is that another recent Sentai dub, Guin Saga, has taken a massive beating an ANN for following the Japanese too closely and being too literal with the adaptation. If you watch the subs on that one, it hardly strays from the translation.

The changes to HOTD really don’t bother me much, because as I said the show is still well cast and the performances are excellent. Not to mention I expected a lot of them as first of all, it’s a Foster dub and second of all, it’s a major property and one with a lot of potential to have some main stream appeal. Fangoria and other horror magazines have even been promoting it. The fact that they’ve taken some liberties and Americanized is no surprise.

Also, I took offense to the statement that Stephen Foster’s writing is never funny. I for one realy enjoyed Ghost Stories and the jokes he added to Saiyuki. They may not have been needed as much in HOTD as in the others, but I still find them enjoyable.

Also, I wondered that about the apartment scene the first time I watched it. But you will have plot holes in all series, expecially horror. It’s best just to roll with it…lol.

501

[quote=dragonrider_cody]
Also, I wondered that about the apartment scene the first time I watched it. But you will have plot holes in all series, expecially horror. It’s best just to roll with it…lol.[/quote]

Trust me, Cody… aside from my one sticking point, I have been rolling with it. Also, I had the question about the zombies outside the apartment even in the dub. On the whole, I do think it’s a good dub.

502

[quote=Newshawk]

[quote=dragonrider_cody]
Also, I wondered that about the apartment scene the first time I watched it. But you will have plot holes in all series, expecially horror. It’s best just to roll with it…lol.[/quote]
Trust me, Cody… aside from my one sticking point, I have been rolling with it. Also, I had the question about the zombies outside the apartment even in the dub. On the whole, I do think it’s a good dub.[/quote]

I think it’s a good dub as well. I had no issue with you expressing your disappointment at that line, but more how you did it at the time. The anime market has been pretty rough the past few years and there is a lot of negativity in fandom as a result. I’ve just become tired of reading things like “this show is garbage. Why didn’t they license this instead?”, or “so and so ruined this dub”, “this is terrible. It should have never been dubbed.” A lot of people complained because Sentai didn’t dub a show the enjoyed but then complain when they do dub something. Then people on other forums wonder why industry reps never post anymore.

It’s possible to express a criticism without being cruel, hateful or insulting. Unfortunately, many people just choose to type whatever pops into their heads without taking a moment to be considerate to others.

503

[quote=dragonrider_cody]
It’s possible to express a criticism without being cruel, hateful or insulting. Unfortunately, many people just choose to type whatever pops into their heads without taking a moment to be considerate to others.[/quote]

To risk being blunt does that policy also apply to Bandai, Bang Zoom and Funimation criticism?

504

[quote=ShawnMerrow]

[quote=dragonrider_cody]
It’s possible to express a criticism without being cruel, hateful or insulting. Unfortunately, many people just choose to type whatever pops into their heads without taking a moment to be considerate to others.[/quote]
To risk being blunt does that policy also apply to Bandai, Bang Zoom and Funimation criticism?[/quote]

To them, Bandai, Viz, Ocean, Coastal Carolina, etc. I will admit there are times that I’ve said things that have gone a bit too far, as everyone has at one point or another. But I’ve toned it down in recent months, and in general just try to avoid certain threads in other forums. But I haven’t seen an anime announcement in months that hasn’t had at least a few posts of people saying things like “why did so and so get this. Company B makes better dubs.” or “Their dubs sucked. Have you listened to them?”

My frustration comes mostly from being disappointed. I understand the move from singles to boxsets requires some compromises, and that if you have to record 13-26 episodes in the same amount of time that you use to dub 4 - 6 episodes, that quality is going to suffer and sadly it has. Sentai has out some very good dubs despite this, though I don’t think they’re as good as the dubs ADV was putting out towards it’s end, like Kanon, Welcome To The NHK, or Le Chevalier Deon. Funimation has put out some respectable work recently, but it all pales in comparison to shows they had done in the past like Basilisk, Samurai 7 and Hell Girl. Bang Zoom has produced some of my favorite dubs of all time, but their recent work like K-On! just isn’t up to the same standards. I know all the dubbing companies out there are capable of better work, but sadly due to current market conditions, they aren’t working to their full potential.

Plus I’ve never use terms like “infantile”, “juvenile”, “incompetent”, or said the VA’s in Texas don’t take their jobs seriously or care about the quality (all things I’ve read on other forums about Sentai and Funimation dubs.) And I’ve never gone as far as saying “I wish so and so would just die” or “they should just go out of business.” I’ve never replied to the news of Funi getting a new title with “FFFFFFFFFFF YOUUUUUUUUU!!!” I’ve never sent death threats to someone via PM because they liked the dub for Ouran or FMA (this has happened to me.)

I also try to stay away from making sweeping generalizations as to why something was done. I’ve worked at Cons and have spent a lot of time with VAs and Directors and I’ve heard some true horror stories about the dubbing process, particularly when the Japanese have a lot of involvement. I’ve even stood up for some of the decisions that 4Kids, Funimation, Sentai and others have made. Some people think the translation and dubbing process are much simpler than what they are.

505

Okay, I really love the next episode previews. The final lines on them have me cracking up half the time. Hard to understand rambling and then “I’m hard” or “Am I in Baghdad?” HA!

Also, so far with the amount of different music this show uses, I’m surprised nothing has been replaced. It looks like Sentai was able to get all the licensing worked out, which is a rarity these days.

506

Where to beging…let’s see…

Sex, violence, and language. These three are the classic ingredients of any teen horror movie. And this is what HotD is: a teen, horror movie…only in anime form.

This dub is AWESOME…and Steven Foster is a genius. He knew exactly what he was doing. Since this show got a dub, that meant Sentai felt this would appeal to a more wider/mainstream audience (by title alone, word of mouth, or anime fans who are also horror fans), those that have watched other zombie and teen horror movies - both past and present - and guess what, those movies had swearing, sex, and violence. Classics like Return of the Living Dead, A Nightmare on Elm Street, Friday the 13th, etc: movies that had teens.

Like we were saying before while the show was being simulcats: it had a lot of elements that reminded us of other movies and shows we’d seen: a snippet of music, a certain scene, a location, etc. And the dub just gives it that little extra reminder: the foul language teens spout out in times of crisis/truama/everyday life.

Like the…

thug in episode 4. Who wouldn’t lose it after taking down one’s own family

And that people is my two cents… :silly:

507

I do agree that the casting was good. But it can’t make up for the terrible writing. I mean come on, in a few years who is going to get the Palin joke?

And maybe I haven’t watched much of Saiyuki or Ghost Stories, but I sure didn’t laugh at the Cromartie dub.

508

[quote=ZakuAce]
I do agree that the casting was good. But it can’t make up for the terrible writing. I mean come on, in a few years who is going to get the Palin joke?

And maybe I haven’t watched much of Saiyuki or Ghost Stories, but I sure didn’t laugh at the Cromartie dub.[/quote]
Wait, are you talking about Cromartie High School? I absolutely loved the dub. One of my favorite all time series.
As for HSOD, I still can’t comment on the dub since I haven’t had a chance to watch it. For the most part, it seems as though they aimed for the younger market. Even some younger anime fans may not like all of the adult language, but it will probably sell because it is a teen raunch fest. I’m older, so I may not enjoy all of the cursing as much as an 18 year old would, but I certainly will not hold the language against a great series.
Slick