i think your right
One thing I don’t get is before ADV, Funmation releast 6 volumes for a 24+ ep. anime for $30 each. Even if you could find them for $20 each its still $120 an anime.
Now that people can afford the half season sets. Section 23 did away with dubs and Funimation didnt?
I bought three animes this past December. Try to find those prices before.
El Cazador de la Bruja Season 1 DVD Part 1 (Hyb) $29.99
El Cazador de la Bruja Season 1 DVD Part 2 (Hyb) $29.99
Kaze No Stigma DVD Value Bundle (Hyb) $59.98
Romeo x Juliet x Savings DVD Bundle (Hyb) $49.99
Total spent 169.95, not bad for 6 half season sets. SRP was 339.88
Funimation is still making money, and people can now afford the animes. and all have dubs.
(Shakes head)… You really don’t get it still?
[quote=dragoon]
(Shakes head)… You really don’t get it still?[/quote]
He never will.
He’ll always be one of those eternal whiners that I was referring to.
Chris I don’t know what your DVD collection looks like, but there are lots of older titles with dubs still available for purchase. Usually they are priced really well too. This is why - and I’ve said it before - I won’t buy the new, subtitled releases. Not because I hate subtitles (I like dubs more, yes, but I don’t asplode when I have to read) but because there is so much good old stuff, with dubs at great prices, for me to pick up.
Maybe once my collection gets good and fat with the old stuff I’ll start buying newer, sub-only releases. But I’m not going to rage-quit anime because the new stuff isn’t getting dubbed.
[quote=TheCoffeeGod]
[quote=dragoon]
(Shakes head)… You really don’t get it still?[/quote]
He never will.
He’ll always be one of those eternal whiners that I was referring to.[/quote]
Yeah, chris does this everywhere he gets a chance. 
Most people ignore the dub complainers now, but it’s just tiring sometimes. I think even the extremist dub fans are finally waking up to the fact the industry is what it is. Over the last few weeks/months there’s very few people complaining nowadays, and most of the ones complaining are fansubbers who rarely buy (the companies know this and see it). There’s little point in bending too far to cater to these types.
I appreciate Chris’ passion for wanting dubs, but the rationale is not there. Again it’s like going to McDonalds and expecting a $100 steak, but only willing to pay $4.
Chris if you are genuine and honest about trying to understand the industry (with your question above) and why things are they way they are, I’ll bite and answer. Do you really want to know the answers or are you just trying to get reactions out of us?
I mean if this continues with the same cycle without people trying to even understand what’s going on - we’re gonna adopt the same policy other industry sites have with No Soapboxing about dubs/subs and just ban these same conversations that we’ve been having over and over and over for a year or so now. There’s more to anime and this forum than sub-only and dub debates.
[quote=ZakuAce]
Chris I don’t know what your DVD collection looks like, but there are lots of older titles with dubs still available for purchase. Usually they are priced really well too. This is why - and I’ve said it before - I won’t buy the new, subtitled releases. Not because I hate subtitles (I like dubs more, yes, but I don’t asplode when I have to read) but because there is so much good old stuff, with dubs at great prices, for me to pick up.
Maybe once my collection gets good and fat with the old stuff I’ll start buying newer, sub-only releases. But I’m not going to rage-quit anime because the new stuff isn’t getting dubbed.[/quote]
Well put. This is how I feel too. It’s not that I don’t want to support Sentai and Section 23 and the others who are releasing some great niche titles. But there’s so many older titles that HAVE dubs that I still have to buy. A show without a dub is not something I’m usually very eager to pick up. I have so many older titles I have to get first. I do want to buy a few of the sub-only stuff, but I’m not ganna run out and buy most things atm, because there’s so much older stuff out there I need to get.
Dragoon: You should make a chart/essay as to why Funimation can dub and release everything. Explain their history and what happened to ADV (and why they can’t dub everything anymore), and then just post a link to that every time someone doesn’t get it. It will make it easier on you. Oh at the end put a picture of DRAGON BALL Z, because that will sum it up quite nice ( and Naruto for Viz 
. There are tons of other reasons that play into this, but I’ve been through them a million times. That’s why we need this epic chart to put an end to this once and for all.
No need to ban me, I will leave. I wasn’t trying to soapbox, Just wanted Clannad dubed thats all I don’t care for the others.
Yes I do understand anime is not being sold like it used to at Bestbuy and FYE. but whose falt was that at $120+ an anime. It wasn’t untill after Bestbuy stoped selling most titles that ADV/Funimation lowered the prices.
It not only anime tas hurting but all dvds. and yes I do know what happend to ADV.
[quote=chrisc]
One thing I don’t get is before ADV, Funmation released 6 volumes for a 24+ ep. anime for $30 each. Even if you could find them for $20 each its still $120 an anime.
Now that people can afford the half season sets. Section 23 did away with dubs and Funimation didn’t?
I bought three animes this past December. Try to find those prices before.
El Cazador de la Bruja Season 1 DVD Part 1 (Hyb) $29.99
El Cazador de la Bruja Season 1 DVD Part 2 (Hyb) $29.99
Kaze No Stigma DVD Value Bundle (Hyb) $59.98
Romeo x Juliet x Savings DVD Bundle (Hyb) $49.99
Total spent 169.95, not bad for 6 half season sets. SRP was 339.88
Funimation is still making money, and people can now afford the animes. and all have dubs.[/quote]
First of all, you really shouldn’t be comparing ADV’s former MSRP to One or Two Time Sale prices for Funi series. If we’re going to do that, then you’re missing the fact that Clannad and To Love Ru have both been available for $40 for THE ENTIRE SERIES.
The two halves of Romeo X Julliet are priced at $59.98, or $44.99 at Right Stuf.
Romeo X Juliet That’s $120 at MSRP, or nearly identical to ADV’s 6 single releases. Even at $45.00, you’re still talking $90 for the complete show, or 50% more than a Sentai release. That 50% premium certainly helps defray the cost of a dub a LOT.
El Cazador is also normally priced at $49.98 per set, and is in the weekly specials for $29.99. This week ONLY that’s $60, which is comparable to what a Sentai series normally retails for at Right Stuf.
El Cazador However, at the MSRP, you’re talking $100 a set, or a 20% premium over a Sentai set.
Also, in case you missed the news, Funimation and it’s parent Navarre reported a 20% sales drop last quarter due in large part to declining sales at it’s media publishing unit. They are also loosing significant shelf space at Best Buy, and as a result 1000’s of units in sales every week. Nearly all their titles from March on are being sold online only, and that significantly affects them. The fact that there is no major Brick and Mortar outlets for anime is a major contributor the lack of dubs on titles. Those couple thousand units that Sentai would normally have sold to Best Buy, or the various TransWorld stores would have nearly paid for a dub. But now, those sales are gone and THEY AREN’T COMING BACK.
The average anime selection at Best Buy stores has decreased nearly 75% over the past two years. (This is average, NOT Every store.) While that hasn’t been as devastating as the collapse of MusicLand, it is quite significant. There are also rumblings that anime may be dropped in store altogether, except for the HUGE titles like Halo Legends, Afro Samurai, etc. John Sirabella from Media Blasters has said it is quite hard to sell an anime with Best Buy’s support. It takes a huge chunk out of their sales. When you add to that the 100s AND 100s of stores TWE has closed, small comics shops closing and ordering less, and the overall downturn in the economy, you have a pretty dire picture for the anime market.
This is quite evident by the fact that Funimation is licensing less and less each year, and letting titles that cannot be dubbed profitably fall to smaller companies like Media Blasters and Sentai. They’ve even said they are considering doing sub only titles, and if their sales continue to fall, I doubt their parent company will give them much of a choice, especially as they witness the success Sentai and Nozomi have been having, even with much more limited marketing.
Dubs aren’t going anywhere for the time being, but anime is a correction period. We are no longer at a time when everything can be dubbed, not even by Funimation and Viz. Some companies, like Funi and Viz, are significantly cutting back their acquisitions and focusing on large titles, while others are trying smaller titles sub-only and attempting to balance them out with an occasional dub here and there. If the titles you want get dubbed, then you should consider yourself lucky. Otherwise, you just may have to be happy with them just being licensed in the first place. If they are licensed and not dubbed, well, that just sucks. But would you rather have everyone go out of business trying the business model that has already failed repeatedly?
No one said anything about banning you chrisc, but it’s like you have no respect for anyone else here. People everywhere are tired of this discussion - stopping these sorts of cyclic discussions that keep going on and on for a year now is another issue.
Whose fault was it that anime was that expensive? The cost of anime, production costs and people not buying enough anime. These are businesses too, so of course they need a profit when paying for those high licensing costs. Nowadays everything is cheaper because production and licensing costs have gone to the toilet. They make cheap anime now to sell at cheaper prices. See what happened to Gonzo with some of their expensive productions. Don’t expect to see another Kaleido Star or RxJ anytime soon, cause that’s what the market wanted when no one was buying and supporting shows, and still now they don’t support.
I rarely remember paying full price for stuff I think the few times I did was Geneon stuff. ADV and Funimation singles were always 5 to 10 dollars cheaper in Best Buy least stuff I bought from them before I started doing most of my shopping online.
Not sure anyone ever said ban either. I know we can be some harsh S.O.B.'s some times ,but man banning for this would be some seriously wicked harsh BS.lol
Indeed. There’s a difference between banning these sorts of discussions and banning people.
I’m going to post this one last thing, even though I have posted it until my fingers hurt. But people still don’t get the picture. People don’t realize how tiny anime sales are, even for “huge” titles like Naruto and DBZ. Naruto only sells 35K copies per release. A Hollywood release does that in less than a day during it’s release week.
But the big part of the picture, that everyone is missing, except perhaps Sentai and NIS, is that the retail picture for anime IS REALLY BAD. Best Buy is the largest seller of anime in the country. They probably do two or three DOZEN times the volume of a place like Right Stuf or Anime Corner. However, more and more titles are being moved online only. Go to Bestbuy.com, and look how many of the March, April and May releases start with 1’s in their sku. Even titles that were expected to be big hits, like Strike Witches, are getting the online only treatment.
STUDIOS CANNOT SELL ANIME DUBBED AND PROFITABLY IF THERE ARE NO STORES TO SELL IT AT. Online sales alone do not quite cut it, except for a few well marketed titles. And most R1 companies don’t have the cash to launch the necessary marketing campaigns.
I have watched anime sales numbers at retail and have seen how bad they have gotten. I don’t think most people realize how bad the situation is getting, and how it is directly related to all the delays we’ve been seeing, and the troubles at places like Bandai. Pretty soon, we may find ourselves in a market where online sales and downloads might be our only means of purchase.
I would like more dubs but understand the market can no longer support every series being dubbed. There is one problem I have with subs. My mom likes anime but most subs are to small for her to read. I think she would like Clannad but the subs are just to small.
[quote=dragoon]
No one said anything about banning you chrisc, but it’s like you have no respect for anyone else here. People everywhere are tired of this discussion - stopping these sorts of cyclic discussions that keep going on and on for a year now is another issue.
Whose fault was it that anime was that expensive? The cost of anime, production costs and people not buying enough anime. These are businesses too, so of course they need a profit when paying for those high licensing costs. Nowadays everything is cheaper because production and licensing costs have gone to the toilet. They make cheap anime now to sell at cheaper prices. See what happened to Gonzo with some of their expensive productions. Don’t expect to see another Kaleido Star or RxJ anytime soon, cause that’s what the market wanted when no one was buying and supporting shows, and still now they don’t support.[/quote]
Its like the company I work for, im not going to say the name but most people heard of it. we make things that cost $5 to $50 dollers to make, and sell the stuff for 100s to thousands of dollars. and no one at my company knows why sales have been down 90% the last year.
Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.
People don’t pay for the actual cost of the item, they’re paying for the cost of the production, R&D, sales, marketing, workforce etc. You’re right that the market eventually corrects itself… it has with anime, because people kept wanting cheaper and cheaper. That’s what their getting and that means dub production is cut out as it’s too expensive of a front-load investment for a company.
Singles helped pay for the “pay as you go” model since companies didn’t have to sink 100s of thousands into a dub that could doom them.
I agree with chrisc on one minor point.
Did you really think Strike Witches would be a big hit Cody? 
Chrisc I hope you don’t leave the forums man. No one was talking about banning you or anything.
[quote=dragonrider_cody]
[quote=chrisc]
Even titles that were expected to be big hits, like Strike Witches[/quote]
Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.[/quote]
Well, maybe not a big hit, but it’s been an anticipated title by a certain segment of fandom, and Funi seems to have some expectations for it. Considering all the buzz around it, whether positive or negative, it says a lot that Best Buy will only be selling it online. Though for this title, I think that’s probably for the best. But even the future installments of One Piece and Sgt Frog are going online only.
I knew what you meant Cody, but it was still funny to hear you say “big hit” and “Strike Witches” in the same sentence .
And everytime you talk about sales it depresses me. I don’t want you to stop telling people of course, because we must all face reality. But it’s very depressing 
.
Strike Witches falls into the otaku-mentality of all my friends online are talking about it so it must be popular. They think these big otaku shows in Japan (Strike Witches is only the second Gonzo title in the decade to come close or pass 10K mark) - so it falls into that false mentality OH ITS Popular Online, MAL or so and so hardcore community … Just like Toradora and Sayonra. They perceive these titles to be popular because it’s popular online in a few communities. Otaku titles do not equal main street sales. The point is, otaku think what’s popular in Japan is popular here, and thus deserve the royal, dub, whatever treatment.
But as we’re seeing with Toradora and SZS - perception is quite often way off from reality.
Quite a challenge for the companies, they have to fight perception and what’s real nowadays. It goes back to the false mirage I was talking about earlier. Anime executives must be going crazy on the inside with their hairs turning whiter faster due to all the pressures and decisions they have to deal with.