Let’s not get into a sub/dub thing here. Please?
I don’t care if it’s about Funi/Section 23 or whatever.
I’ll get my BanHammer out.
Dragonball Kai has broken records on Nicktoons, so don’t expect Funimation to be dying anytime soon.
[quote=blakdragon7]
Dragonball Kai has broken records on Nicktoons, so don’t expect Funimation to be dying anytime soon.[/quote]
We’ll have to see if those numbers stay that high. I read that in some cases, the viewer ship for DBK was up over 150% compared to last year. I am a fan of the DB franchise, but I’m not loving this dub. I’ll still DVR it, and I think kids will stick with this show.
As for Funi, they may be in a little trouble. As long as Navarre doesn’t pull a Sojitz(I think most know my feelings there), they will still be around for a long time.
Slick
[quote=slickwolfie]
[quote=blakdragon7]
Dragonball Kai has broken records on Nicktoons, so don’t expect Funimation to be dying anytime soon.[/quote]
We’ll have to see if those numbers stay that high. I read that in some cases, the viewer ship for DBK was up over 150% compared to last year. I am a fan of the DB franchise, but I’m not loving this dub. I’ll still DVR it, and I think kids will stick with this show.
As for Funi, they may be in a little trouble. As long as Navarre doesn’t pull a Sojitz(I think most know my feelings there), they will still be around for a long time.
Slick[/quote]
Let’s not forget, it’s Nicktoons. It doesn’t take that much to be a hit on such specialty/niche channels that not everyone has. A 1.0 share might be a hit on say CN or ScyFy, but on any of the major channels, that show would be off the air in 2 weeks.
[quote=blakdragon7]
Dragonball Kai has broken records on Nicktoons, so don’t expect Funimation to be dying anytime soon.[/quote]
Can you give the source for this? I don’t know where to look to find this type of info.
[quote=Slowhand]
[quote=blakdragon7]
Dragonball Kai has broken records on Nicktoons, so don’t expect Funimation to be dying anytime soon.[/quote]
Can you give the source for this? I don’t know where to look to find this type of info.[/quote]
I found it on a couple sites. I can’t find the one that had viewer ship for all the cable channels, but here is one source.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/06/02/nickelodeon-icarly-scores-basic-cable’s-top-entertainment-telecast-for-month-with-total-viewers/52985
Slick
Thanks, Slick! :laugh:
Like was stated, ratings on Nicktoons are not very high to begin with, as it is primarily a digital channel. If DBK were pulling these ratings on CN or Nick’s main channel, it might end up getting canceled.
Also, it’s important to remember that anime companies don’t receive much money for the TV rights for their shows. While it is some added revenue, the majority of the revenue for DBK will come from merchandising and DVD sales. The important question is: Will people who have already bought the season sets of DBZ, or the DragonBox sets be willing to buy the net Kai sets. That’s ultimately going to be more important than NickToon’s ratings.
Lastly, I would like to use the example of One Piece. When it premiered, it excellent ratings, even giving shows on Nickelodeon a run for their money. Unfortunately, those ratings didn’t last, and there is no guarantee they will stay up for Kai.
[quote=chrisc]
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2010-05-29/funi-ceo/navarre-to-handle-titles-after-possible-sal
In an interview with ANN, Funimation CEO Gen Fukunaga said that his company anticipates that its parent company Navarre would continue to handle back-end distribution for Funimation — even after the possible sale of Funimation that Navarre is considering. Fukunaga also downplayed the speculation that the original owners of Funimation — Fukunaga himself and the Cocanaugher family in Texas — might be buying the company back from Navarre. Fukunaga said, “That’s pretty unlikely because we’ve got all sorts of other investments now, and we’d have to sell everything else we’ve invested in …].”
Fukunaga added that Funimation plans to announce its first co-production in the next few weeks. Funimation revealed its new co-production initiative last November, and Navarre said on Thursday that a new owner would help Funimation expand in “co-productions of original anime content, social networks, and digital broadcasting.” Fukunaga explained that the co-production initiative is developing projects based on titles that are already well-known in the United States. He added, “What we’ll do is take a famous United States brand that already has a big fanbase.”[/quote]
The following post is taken from my ANN forum entry that was ignored by the panicking Funimation fanboys:
From listening to Navarre’s confrence call and from the 15% dip in revenue, the signs are there and everything is clearly obvious: Navarre is about ready to split from Funimation after nearly six years as its sole parent company and distributor.
So what does this mean? It means Funimation will be sold off to another parent company, and will go through a lenthy and confusing process of contracts,business structure and possible reorganizing.
People are failing to mention that Funimation like Section23 is a Texas based company. Though Navarre owns majority of Funimation’s share, they have no say in the fate of the company except in reguards to assets,renvenue and stock value. Remember Texas business laws are very complex. Navarre has no ablility to shut down Funimation, but they can shrink the company down.
Is this bad news? No, not really. It just means that Funimation will spend the remainder of the 2nd quarter of 2010 looking for a new parent company willing to snatch it up. Once they find one An ADV-Section23-like transfer is likely to occur. but since Funimation is a parent owned label, the name will remain.
So if Funimation is looking for a japanese parent company I think they should consider two companies: TOEI or Sunrise. For Fukanaga(who’s very familliar with Toyko’s stock exchange ethics) he’ll probably consider a full sale with terms and conditions tied to it.
I really doubt Funimation would be looking for a Japanese parent. First of all, most Japanese companies have repeatedly proven that they have no understanding of the North American market at all. Secondly, the point of the merger is to get Funi with someone who has synergies in the areas they are looking to expand into, like digital distribution. Not to mention, most of the distributors in North America who have been owned in part, or in full by Japanese companies have failed.
Also, Funimation is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Navarre. They can pretty much do with the company whatever they want. If they can’t find a buyer, they are free to spin it off or out, or even liquidate the company if they choose to. There is not some magic law that prevents a company from closing a division, whether profitable or not.
[quote=dragonrider_cody]
I really doubt Funimation would be looking for a Japanese parent. First of all, most Japanese companies have repeatedly proven that they have no understanding of the North American market at all. Secondly, the point of the merger is to get Funi with someone who has synergies in the areas they are looking to expand into, like digital distribution. Not to mention, most of the distributors in North America who have been owned in part, or in full by Japanese companies have failed.
Also, Funimation is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Navarre. They can pretty much do with the company whatever they want. If they can’t find a buyer, they are free to spin it off or out, or even liquidate the company if they choose to. There is not some magic law that prevents a company from closing a division, whether profitable or not.[/quote]
Navarre is the parent company of Funimation. They’ve owned the company since 2004. Without Navarre, Funimation is just a single label will small operations. Navarre owns about 80% of Funimation’s stock, they can’t just shut them down but they can liquidate thier assets.
I wasn’t saying that Funimation will be considering being snatched up by a Japanese parent company. (We all know what a disaster for Pioneer/Geneon being wholy owned by Denstu turned out to be). I was saying if Funimation was even considering that as an option they would probably look into Sunrise or TOEI.
Funimation is probably looking at a nearby subsary. A Texas based parent.(Navarre is Minnesota based.)
Another ANN entry I made about Funimation’s sudden rise to the top as the #1 R1 label:
For the past two years, Funimation has emerged from the label known as “The good 4Kids twin” of Americanizing and reversioning anime the right way to the largest anime distributor in America. Since they were acquired by Navarre in late 2004, Funimation has gained prominace as a popluar and respectable R1 label. When Geneon USA folded in late 2007 and in early 2008 when Sojitz/ARM nearly drove ADV(The Company not the label) into the ground, Funimation picked up the mantle and became THE top label. During this period, they were licensing things left and right, also they took ADV’s spot at the Alamo Drafthouse, Funimation was growing and growing while ADV recovered. By early 2009, most Japanese investors knew Funimation was the label that could give thier titles the boost and profit needed and offered them dozens and dozens of large licenses. Though its longtime Japanese business partner GDH was facing ethic issues in Toyko, Funimation was virtually untouched.
Meanwhile, Bandai Visual, folded and as result Bang Zoom lost the ablility to dub independant productions but unknown to everyone, ADV was restructuring after having found 2 new investors asking them to start some new labels called “Sentai Filmworks” and “Switchblade Pictures” the growth was rapid and uneventful and though the company couldn’t risk dubbing its new licenses and several number of consumers griped, its sub only titles sold remarklebly well. So well, that ADV finally found another investor that could give them more larger licenses: TBS. After buying several of the dissolving CPM’s out of print titles, ADV knew that there was no way to avoid a hostile takeover from its greedy investor Sojitz who betrayed ADV and forced them to give up nearly all of its 2006-2007 licenses over to Funimation(who was disinterested in these titles) since Sojitz owned a 20% market share of ADV Films from the 2006 partnership. John Ledford,Matt Greenfield and David and Mark Williams were not about to throw in the towel. The company HAD to survive and somehow evade bankrupcy the solution: The “1977 Texas Two Step bankrupcy Prevention Act” which allows Texas based LLCs to properly restructure without filing for Chapter 11 but in order for the law to save the company, its must file for a new LLC name and then transfer the assets and operations over to the new label after that, the old label can be closed down. After dividing its company into 3 names merged together: Section 23(distribution),Seraphrim(ADR dubbing formerly Industrial Smoke and Mirrors,)Valkerie(The Anime Network) along with Sentai and Switchblade. ADV shut down its label name indefinelty.
Meanwhile, Funimation’s profits remained strong, and the company became the first R1 to release a Blu-Ray master. To Sojitz, they were once again dissapointed. As its decision to pull the rug out from under ADV backfired. ADV was still owed revenue for the dubs, and the confusion over repackaging the titles with Funimation led to even more lackluster sales of the titles. In the end Sojitz was left with nothing but thier tainted poorly sold licenses, tarnished image at home in Japan for its poor mistreatment of an American investor and ADV’s decision to change its name to “Section23” permenantly halted Sojitz’s chances of making an assets claim or forcing a hostile takeover on ADV.
Because Funimation and its parent company Navarre were licensing large and expensive titles and investing entirely on billingal releases, the company’s revenue dropped. But sales,profits,expectations remained strong. Geneon’s former licenses fared very well for Funimation but Funi still had to pay Dentsu for all returns.
The obvious likely reason why Navarre is considering selling off Funimation to a new parent company is simply because the value and renvue of the company has dropped. Funimation needs more imput and after five long years with Navarre they need a fresh start. Who knows at this point where Navarre plans to give Funimation to. The company has be very profitable for them and I’m sure whoever picks up Funimation will take good care of them and allow them to run the company the same way.
Funimation was always a privately owned company, prior to being acquired by Navarre. It has no stock, nor has it ever had stock. Navarre owns the company in it’s entirety. So basically, Navarre can do whatever they want with it, including selling it off, spinning it off or out, liquidating, or simply phasing out the division.
Also liquidating a division is essentially shutting it down. If you lay off everyone and sell everything off, it’s pretty much the same as just flipping the off switch. There really isn’t much of a difference.
I really doubt Navarre will care where the company that acquires Funimation is headquartered. Don’t forget, that it doesn’t really matter what Funi wants in a buyer, it’s ultimately going to be Navarre’s decision. They are looking for a way to raise some capital to grow the other divisions, so it will be going to whoever is willing to pay the most.
[quote=TornadoTamaki]
Another ANN entry I made about Funimation’s sudden rise to the top as the #1 R1 label:
For the past two years, Funimation has emerged from the label known as “The good 4Kids twin” of Americanizing and reversioning anime the right way to the largest anime distributor in America. Since they were acquired by Navarre in late 2004, Funimation has gained prominace as a popluar and respectable R1 label. When Geneon USA folded in late 2007 and in early 2008 when Sojitz/ARM nearly drove ADV(The Company not the label) into the ground, Funimation picked up the mantle and became THE top label. During this period, they were licensing things left and right, also they took ADV’s spot at the Alamo Drafthouse, Funimation was growing and growing while ADV recovered. By early 2009, most Japanese investors knew Funimation was the label that could give thier titles the boost and profit needed and offered them dozens and dozens of large licenses. Though its longtime Japanese business partner GDH was facing ethic issues in Toyko, Funimation was virtually untouched.
Meanwhile, Bandai Visual, folded and as result Bang Zoom lost the ablility to dub independant productions but unknown to everyone, ADV was restructuring after having found 2 new investors asking them to start some new labels called “Sentai Filmworks” and “Switchblade Pictures” the growth was rapid and uneventful and though the company couldn’t risk dubbing its new licenses and several number of consumers griped, its sub only titles sold remarklebly well. So well, that ADV finally found another investor that could give them more larger licenses: TBS. After buying several of the dissolving CPM’s out of print titles, ADV knew that there was no way to avoid a hostile takeover from its greedy investor Sojitz who betrayed ADV and forced them to give up nearly all of its 2006-2007 licenses over to Funimation(who was disinterested in these titles) since Sojitz owned a 20% market share of ADV Films from the 2006 partnership. John Ledford,Matt Greenfield and David and Mark Williams were not about to throw in the towel. The company HAD to survive and somehow evade bankrupcy the solution: The “1977 Texas Two Step bankrupcy Prevention Act” which allows Texas based LLCs to properly restructure without filing for Chapter 11 but in order for the law to save the company, its must file for a new LLC name and then transfer the assets and operations over to the new label after that, the old label can be closed down. After dividing its company into 3 names merged together: Section 23(distribution),Seraphrim(ADR dubbing formerly Industrial Smoke and Mirrors,)Valkerie(The Anime Network) along with Sentai and Switchblade. ADV shut down its label name indefinelty.
Meanwhile, Funimation’s profits remained strong, and the company became the first R1 to release a Blu-Ray master. To Sojitz, they were once again dissapointed. As its decision to pull the rug out from under ADV backfired. ADV was still owed revenue for the dubs, and the confusion over repackaging the titles with Funimation led to even more lackluster sales of the titles. In the end Sojitz was left with nothing but thier tainted poorly sold licenses, tarnished image at home in Japan for its poor mistreatment of an American investor and ADV’s decision to change its name to “Section23” permenantly halted Sojitz’s chances of making an assets claim or forcing a hostile takeover on ADV.
Because Funimation and its parent company Navarre were licensing large and expensive titles and investing entirely on billingal releases, the company’s revenue dropped. But sales,profits,expectations remained strong. Geneon’s former licenses fared very well for Funimation but Funi still had to pay Dentsu for all returns.
The obvious likely reason why Navarre is considering selling off Funimation to a new parent company is simply because the value and renvue of the company has dropped. Funimation needs more imput and after five long years with Navarre they need a fresh start. Who knows at this point where Navarre plans to give Funimation to. The company has be very profitable for them and I’m sure whoever picks up Funimation will take good care of them and allow them to run the company the same way.[/quote]
Wow, I don’t think they make boots tall enough to wade through all that crap!
You are making a lot of assumptions about companies without any firsthand knowledge or evidence. Sentai has never come forward to say who they’re investors are. Even the people with “actual sources” in the R1 anime industry aren’t sure about it. It’s very unlikely it’s a large publicly traded company like TBS, as it would have come out one way or another by now.
You’re entitled to your opinions, but at least provide some facts to back them up.
Funimation did well for as long as they had merchandise and video game rights to sell of Dragon Ball Z and the Dragon Ball series. They’ve as far as I can tell have licensed all those rights out so no more money coming in from those for a while. As I’ve and others have said TV airings don’t mean very much unless those airings make people buy the home video releases. I’m kind of wondering if its not Toei that put Kai on Nicktoons. I know they kept the broadcast rights for One Piece and from what I heard them not being able to come to an agreement with Cartoon Network is why it did not show back up on CN.
[quote=dragonrider_cody]
[quote=TornadoTamaki]
Another ANN entry I made about Funimation’s sudden rise to the top as the #1 R1 label:
For the past two years, Funimation has emerged from the label known as “The good 4Kids twin” of Americanizing and reversioning anime the right way to the largest anime distributor in America. Since they were acquired by Navarre in late 2004, Funimation has gained prominace as a popluar and respectable R1 label. When Geneon USA folded in late 2007 and in early 2008 when Sojitz/ARM nearly drove ADV(The Company not the label) into the ground, Funimation picked up the mantle and became THE top label. During this period, they were licensing things left and right, also they took ADV’s spot at the Alamo Drafthouse, Funimation was growing and growing while ADV recovered. By early 2009, most Japanese investors knew Funimation was the label that could give thier titles the boost and profit needed and offered them dozens and dozens of large licenses. Though its longtime Japanese business partner GDH was facing ethic issues in Toyko, Funimation was virtually untouched.
Meanwhile, Bandai Visual, folded and as result Bang Zoom lost the ablility to dub independant productions but unknown to everyone, ADV was restructuring after having found 2 new investors asking them to start some new labels called “Sentai Filmworks” and “Switchblade Pictures” the growth was rapid and uneventful and though the company couldn’t risk dubbing its new licenses and several number of consumers griped, its sub only titles sold remarklebly well. So well, that ADV finally found another investor that could give them more larger licenses: TBS. After buying several of the dissolving CPM’s out of print titles, ADV knew that there was no way to avoid a hostile takeover from its greedy investor Sojitz who betrayed ADV and forced them to give up nearly all of its 2006-2007 licenses over to Funimation(who was disinterested in these titles) since Sojitz owned a 20% market share of ADV Films from the 2006 partnership. John Ledford,Matt Greenfield and David and Mark Williams were not about to throw in the towel. The company HAD to survive and somehow evade bankrupcy the solution: The “1977 Texas Two Step bankrupcy Prevention Act” which allows Texas based LLCs to properly restructure without filing for Chapter 11 but in order for the law to save the company, its must file for a new LLC name and then transfer the assets and operations over to the new label after that, the old label can be closed down. After dividing its company into 3 names merged together: Section 23(distribution),Seraphrim(ADR dubbing formerly Industrial Smoke and Mirrors,)Valkerie(The Anime Network) along with Sentai and Switchblade. ADV shut down its label name indefinelty.
Meanwhile, Funimation’s profits remained strong, and the company became the first R1 to release a Blu-Ray master. To Sojitz, they were once again dissapointed. As its decision to pull the rug out from under ADV backfired. ADV was still owed revenue for the dubs, and the confusion over repackaging the titles with Funimation led to even more lackluster sales of the titles. In the end Sojitz was left with nothing but thier tainted poorly sold licenses, tarnished image at home in Japan for its poor mistreatment of an American investor and ADV’s decision to change its name to “Section23” permenantly halted Sojitz’s chances of making an assets claim or forcing a hostile takeover on ADV.
Because Funimation and its parent company Navarre were licensing large and expensive titles and investing entirely on billingal releases, the company’s revenue dropped. But sales,profits,expectations remained strong. Geneon’s former licenses fared very well for Funimation but Funi still had to pay Dentsu for all returns.
The obvious likely reason why Navarre is considering selling off Funimation to a new parent company is simply because the value and renvue of the company has dropped. Funimation needs more imput and after five long years with Navarre they need a fresh start. Who knows at this point where Navarre plans to give Funimation to. The company has be very profitable for them and I’m sure whoever picks up Funimation will take good care of them and allow them to run the company the same way.[/quote]
Wow, I don’t think they make boots tall enough to wade through all that crap!
You are making a lot of assumptions about companies without any firsthand knowledge or evidence. Sentai has never come forward to say who they’re investors are. Even the people with “actual sources” in the R1 anime industry aren’t sure about it. It’s very unlikely it’s a large publicly traded company like TBS, as it would have come out one way or another by now.
You’re entitled to your opinions, but at least provide some facts to back them up.[/quote]
You have a point. I do remember that just before ADV shut down it’s old label, they revealed another investor. Also some of these assumptions come from this arcticle http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/editorial/2009-09-01/what-happening-with-adv-films
as well as some of the things Matt Greenfield told me at Oni-con 2008.
That article states very clearly that it is “informed speculation”. They have no actual facts to back those claims up, though the article itself doesn’t really make many claims. It also doesn’t reveal any new investors in the company. It mention’s ADV’s former lawyer, as well as the company that is registered as owning AeSir Holdings.
Also, I have to point out that most of ANN’s “informed speculation” comes as a result of relationships with another anime company. This other anime company actually would have fairly limited knowledge as to the inner workings of Sentai. Not to mention this company in the past has used it’s influence at ANN to disparage ADV and others and spread misinformation about those companies. Remember various forum members there and at Mania claiming no one would license shows to ADV or Ledford? We later learned that those “informed sources” were wrong. The R1 anime industry is actually very tiny and insular, and this type of “misguidance” is actually rather easy to pull off.
As to what you’ve heard from Matt Greenfield, I can’t really say whether that is still true or not. I would like to point out that it’s been nearly two years since that conversation. Things change very quickly and often very radically in the North American anime field. A certain property or deal can look like a “sure thing” one day and be gone the next. That’s just the way it works, especially with so many companies having to completely restructure their businesses as of late.
I’m certainly not saying you are lying, but you are stating things as those they are facts when you really have no way in judging that. If you would have said “I think” or “I’ve heard” that would be something else entirely.
[quote=dragonrider_cody]
I’m certainly not saying you are lying, but you are stating things as those they are facts when you really have no way in judging that. If you would have said “I think” or “I’ve heard” that would be something else entirely.[/quote]
[size=16]“This!”[/size]
Don’t post things as if they are facts unless you have public proof. You heard is not proof so don’t type is as if it is. Type it as cody suggested “I think” or “I’ve heard”.
Thanks! Though I got a little scared when I saw all those BOLD words…lol
[quote=dragonrider_cody]
If you look at their business plans, there are nearly identical. They even both launched anime channels. Funimation even later changed it’s approach to mimick Anime Networks by focusing largely on VOD. The only difference in their businesses is that Funi never had manga or music divisions.[/quote]
And their first foray in original anime production is based on a video game…just like ADV’s first was: SIN.
I predict that Funi’s second production will be based on a comic book character…just like ADV’s second production was: LADY DEATH.
It’s like W2K all over again…man.